Curse

Mera Regila · Aug 06, 2006, 08:36 AM // 08:36

Need some help on my ranger build, im looking to go for a Canthan Exploration Title, and need some input on the mini spike build I am going to be using in my henchmen groups, im the only one that can spike in the team, so its like a solo spike build.

Attributes:
Expertise: 11
Wilderness Survival: 9
Marksmanship: 16

Dual Shot
Marauder's Shot
Melandru's Shot
Savage Shot
Read The Wind
Tiger's Fury<>Lightning Reflexes (Situational)
Troll Uguent
Signet Of Capture<>Ressurection Signet<>Whirling Defense

I use Read The Wind, and then my speed stance, and use Dual Shot, Marauder's Shot, then Melandru's Shot, followed by Savage Shot to end the spike. Casters are usually dead at the end of the spike, and i can keep it up pretty long by finding an enchanted foe to hit with Melandru's Shot.

Any input?

Evilsod · Aug 06, 2006, 11:32 AM // 11:32

When will people learn that you can't spike as a ranger alone...

You want to get exploration, so in other words need henchman to be able to survive? With only 1 interrupt they won't be. Erys Vasburg can only do so much. You won't get anywhere if you think this build is useful everywhere. Melandrus Shot is utterly useless as energy management in some places, its also way too conditional as the enemies that actually use enchantments (monks and eles mainly) are usually the first to be killed.

Besides the majority of exploration i did to get my title was just running around... sod henchman. Punishing Shot is alot better, Apply Poison is also nice to degen a group of enemies. Henchman can do plenty of damage on there own, the best type of intervention you can do is with conditions or interrupts/knockdowns or additional protection to them (ie Throw Dirt). Same can be said for any class.

Amy Awien · Aug 06, 2006, 02:52 PM // 14:52

Why do you want to semi-spike, it doesn't seem usefull when exploring with henchies?
I'd agree with Evilsod, heck, just use the opportunity to try all kinds of different builds - interupting, trapping, conditions - and find out their uses and limitations.

Yukito Kunisaki · Aug 06, 2006, 03:39 PM // 15:39

There must be an update I'm unaware of...

There's 2 ways I've seen a ranger spike solo...

Trap stacking: Aatxes getting nailed for 400+ dmg in 2 seconds is very hawt...
Buff stacking: More buffs can be stacked on a ranger than any other class...

The only reason I see a ranger NOT spiking any harder is because none of their skills utilize deep wound as a condition...

However, the ranger I created can spike on lower armored enemies quite well...

btw, as far as expertise goes, the energy break point for it comes at 9, 13, and 14 expertise respectively... and from the guides I've seen, these levels depend on your skill energy cost average...

If most of your skills cost 5e, then 9 expertise is ok, if they cost 10 [think, penetrating shot, powershot, dual shot, etc...] then 13 expertise cuts it well... If you're a trapper using those crazy 15e. skills, then 14 expertise will be very noticeable...

Amy Awien · Aug 06, 2006, 06:00 PM // 18:00

Not exactly, breakpoints are at:

8 and 13 for E5
9, 12 and 14 for E10
8, 10, 11, 13. 15 and 16 for E15
any for E25 (1/25 == 4%)

In practice, I use either 9 or 13., maybe 14, depending on abundance of E10 skills on my bar.

Why would there have been an update that you missed?

Dyon Adell · Aug 07, 2006, 09:08 AM // 09:08

Well, for one, I am a spike fannatic. So much so my ranger is permanently built on spike. And I even carry this build for farming and missions. I can see many of you think spiking is impossible with one ranger spiker or in pve. But I've been doing this for some time, and I've somehow self-learnt the art of solo spiking.

Firstly, here's my build:

Marksmanship - 12 + 3 + 1
Expertise - 12 + 1
Inspirational Magic - 3

Ressurrection Signet
Dual Shot
Punishing Shot {Elite}
Savage Shot
Whirling Defense
Read the Wind
Favorable Winds
Drain Enchantment

Normally, with 7 other henchies(I take 2 monk, as many rangers available and the rest kinda random), I'll call a target first and then let henchies attack the mobs. I'll scan for the mob with the lowest health and then perform the generic spike combo. The spike combo itself should take out about 30-70% of a caster's health, depending on level and AL. Most of the time I should be able to take out a mob with half its health left. Scan for the next weakest, repeat. Even if your spike isn't that effective, remember you have 2 interrupts. If the opponent is pretty tough, normally I do Dual -> Punishing -> normal attack -> Savage Shot. Spread out my interrupts to interrupt more efficiently. Works most of the time for me. The only times I don't use this build is when I'm doing stuff like Tombs or elite missions. Generally works for me.

Amy Awien · Aug 07, 2006, 11:22 AM // 11:22

Then why not add Needling Shot to finish them off? I mean, that would be the skill to use when they are "halfspiked". The 1 sec cycle it yields an awesome damage output when combined with FW and RtW or Kindle Arrows.

Off topic, but I never take rez when travelling with henchies.

Mera Regila · Aug 08, 2006, 07:26 PM // 19:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

Then why not add Needling Shot to finish them off? I mean, that would be the skill to use when they are "halfspiked". The 1 sec cycle it yields an awesome damage output when combined with FW and RtW or Kindle Arrows.

Off topic, but I never take rez when travelling with henchies.

Hmm... I have a bunch of energy problems when I use Needling Shot, and there are many more monsters in PvE than there are people in PvP 4v4.

Mera Regila · Aug 08, 2006, 07:30 PM // 19:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

When will people learn that you can't spike as a ranger alone...

You want to get exploration, so in other words need henchman to be able to survive? With only 1 interrupt they won't be. Erys Vasburg can only do so much. You won't get anywhere if you think this build is useful everywhere. Melandrus Shot is utterly useless as energy management in some places, its also way too conditional as the enemies that actually use enchantments (monks and eles mainly) are usually the first to be killed.

Besides the majority of exploration i did to get my title was just running around... sod henchman. Punishing Shot is alot better, Apply Poison is also nice to degen a group of enemies. Henchman can do plenty of damage on there own, the best type of intervention you can do is with conditions or interrupts/knockdowns or additional protection to them (ie Throw Dirt). Same can be said for any class.

A lot of the enemies on the Kurzick side use Enchants, so I take Melandru's Shot, it's about as underappreciated an elite as Quick Shot, and this spike combo deals a lot of constant damage to some casters, leaving the henchmen free to take out the rest of the mob while i kill casters,sins, and anything else that uses an enchant.

If the enemy doesn't use an enchantment, i still get, AT LEAST. 20 dmg from dual shot, 47 from Marauder's Shot, another 47 from Melandru's Shot, AND a 10 from Savage Shot. These figures are the LELAST POSSABLE damages with Read The Wind you can get. Most likely damages will be far more than this.

SnipiousMax · Aug 08, 2006, 07:48 PM // 19:48

While I agree that generally Punishing Shot is a better choice as an elite, I think people stick their noses up at Melandru's Shot because they think the E-Management is worthless. If you look at it as a single attack that deals a big burst of damage with no negative, it's easier to justify it's use as an elite. The E-Management is a secondary bonus (although it was intended to be the primary reason to bring the skill). If you're in a group that has most of the utility covered, Melandru's is a very powerful damaging skill to bring.

I still prefer PS though.

Crushedskulls11 · Aug 09, 2006, 07:14 PM // 19:14

seeing as ur goin w/ henches i would go /mo and replace rez sig w/ rebirth - if ur henches start dying run away then rebirth em then give it another shot

as for the 100% i got 100 cantha and am 4.9% away from 100 tyria using this build w/ henches

Poisen Arrow (E)
Marauders Shot
Savage Shot
Distracing Shot
Read the Wind
Troll Ungent
Whirling Defense
Rebirth

Marks - 11+1
Exp 10 + 1 + 2
Wildnerness - 10 + 2

weapon - longbow w/ poisen lengthen and +30 hp and druids armor

worked for me in almost all area cept i ran into problems w/ monk bosses in factions so maybe a Broad head arrow build? but i wouldnt go spike build as the henches do enough dmg on there own - as long as u know priority orders and drawing effectivly helps to

- the best builds imo for goin w/ henches are the 1s that provide support/interupts and having somthing to keep u alive cause when u die usually the henches die pretty quikly

Evilsod · Aug 10, 2006, 12:20 AM // 00:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnipiousMax

While I agree that generally Punishing Shot is a better choice as an elite, I think people stick their noses up at Melandru's Shot because they think the E-Management is worthless. If you look at it as a single attack that deals a big burst of damage with no negative, it's easier to justify it's use as an elite. The E-Management is a secondary bonus (although it was intended to be the primary reason to bring the skill). If you're in a group that has most of the utility covered, Melandru's is a very powerful damaging skill to bring.

I still prefer PS though.

By 'no negative' i assume your comparing it with Marauders Shot. Personally i do see this as energy management and not an attack skill. If i wanted alot of added damage, Mauraders Shot/Punishing Shot suits me alot more then hoping the enemy you need to kill is enchanted. It severely limits its use imo. I'd rather take a skill that is more reliable.... Punishing Shot like you said

Tbh though i've found just using a general Barrage/interrupt build at 16 Marks 13 Exp works better in Cantha. Tyrian mobs are generally quite small or varied so they don't all pile together, Canthan mobs seem to be grouped up alot more often. Some places going as Trapper works well, but generally it seems Barrager is good.

Dyon Adell · Aug 10, 2006, 03:56 AM // 03:56

Well yes. Just found it to be super useful. Here's my new pve build(still in the process of learning as exploring):

Res sig
Dual Shot
Punishing Shot {Elite}
Savage Shot
Needling Shot
Read the Wind
Whirling Defense
Healing Spring

Put all Inspiration into Wilderness. Use Healing Spring before huge battles start, or cover yourself with Whirling Defense then run up to a dieing player and use it. Or just set it up when no one's attacking you and you think it would remain that way.

Needling Shot is tremendously useful. It's beginning to be my new obsession. Spike anyone you like, and after 1-2 more normal attacks, you can flood Needling to his death. Instant recharge, 31 damage all the time. It's like a 31 health degen. Once an opponent reaches less than 50% health he's in pretty deep shit. Your array of never-ending-arrows come.

.defekt · Aug 10, 2006, 05:14 AM // 05:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dyon Adell

Needling Shot is tremendously useful. It's beginning to be my new obsession. Spike anyone you like, and after 1-2 more normal attacks, you can flood Needling to his death. Instant recharge, 31 damage all the time. It's like a 31 health degen. Once an opponent reaches less than 50% health he's in pretty deep shit. Your array of never-ending-arrows come.

Yeah, until you run out of energy. :\

Amy Awien · Aug 10, 2006, 05:50 AM // 05:50

Depending on how much energy you used up before you start needling, energy regen covers about half it's cost (assuming expertise is at 13), a zealous bowstring would take care of the other half. I have no energy problems using needling in PvE, but I don't do semi-spikes with interrupt either - I've become rather fond of PS/CG lately and that isn't very energyhungry. For a 'spike' like build I'd seriously consider bringing Needling Shot.

Maybe anothe semi-spike combination could be in the sequence
Penetrating / Quick Shot / Sundering / Quick Shot / Penetrating / Quick Shot ... finish off with needling.
It has full recharge and be kept up, until you run out of energy. Add a prep, off course.

Snoblind · Aug 10, 2006, 10:59 AM // 10:59

I generally run along Amy's lines:

Kindle Arrows / Quick Shot / needling shot/ Punishing / fireball/ meteor / edge of extintion / charm animal

I hit groups with meteor/fireball and look for the weakest to spam QS/NS untill one drops when EoE does its damage and repeat... unless I see a monk or Rit and they get my full attention...

I level 10ish in Marksmanship, Expertise, Fire magic and dump the rest into BM

Alexi Jotun · Aug 10, 2006, 05:09 PM // 17:09

Before the AoE nerf, I used to run Dual Shot with Ignite Arrows... MASSIVE AoE damage.

Sadly, those days are now over. So now i'm doing some Barrage/Interrupt builds in PvE.

Evilsod · Aug 11, 2006, 02:16 AM // 02:16

What use is Ignite Arrows anymore? Beyond making Rurik run like a scared little girl (leave him to fight 2 Charr and see what i mean) and for Avicara Fierces to completely annihilate henchman.

Wolydarg · Aug 11, 2006, 03:21 AM // 03:21

Avicara Fierce are mean spikers in mineral springs...if they had savage I bet capping there would be much harder...

I personally think spiking is just silly PvE, the point of spiking is to kill a target before they can be healed by a monk. Most monsters in the game can live through a 1-man spike easily. I'd go for a massive damage over time build using degen's that go through armor or lots of buffs since you're ignoring the main strength of spiking because it's in PvE

ShaneOfMach · Aug 11, 2006, 05:05 AM // 05:05

I use:

Expertise: 12+1
Wilderness Survival: 8+1
Marksmanship: 10+3+1

Skills:

Kindle Arrows
Dual Shot
Quick Shot
Savage Shot
Needling Shot
Favorable Winds
Troll Unguent
Res

Favorable > Kindle > Dual > Quick > Savage > Quick > Needling (If enemy is below 50% health by now, just keep using needling until dual shot recharges. If not, use quick shot)

Each cycle takes roughly 8 seconds, or maybe longer